CHCRG Suggests SOLUTION! – Golf Reservations Record INSTANTLY Appears for FREE

Written By: admin - Nov• 02•17

On October 26th, Ken Cromar (CHCRG) & Rob Crawley (recent CH City Councilman) met with City Manager Chandler Goodwin and City Recorder Colleen Mulvey at the Golf Clubhouse Grill to discuss why the City thought it was so difficult to provide electronic golf reservation records for free golf. 

After a lengthy explanation of the "challenges", Ken & Rob suggested that City simply ask FORE UP — the golf reservaton software provider — and ask if there is a way to access the electronic golf reservations data.  FORE UP said, "Yes!" 

Thanks to CHCRG – Problem solved!  

The report was INSTANTLY available, in less than the $50 threshold, — which made the GRAMA Request FREE.

Quick recap:

– The original GRAMA Request was made Oct. 9 with hope of providing CH voters with FREE golf facts

– The City Recorder waited toward the end of the 10 day limit to provide an 80 hour estimate ("it could be more") which at $35 / hour (rate hiked).

– This would have meant that CHCRG members would have had to pay $2,800 to access 3 years about thousands of dollars worth of FREE golf.

– When the City dug a little deeper at Ken & Rob's suggestion, to City Manager Chandler Goodwin's credit he contacted the software provider FORE UP who provided the solution within minutes.

– The GRAMA requested records were provided in minutes — not weeks.

– The GRAMA requested records were provided in free — not $2,800.

– Two weeks of Staff time saved.

– Problem solved!


Unfortunately, the City's "response" — when it finally came — actually raised MORE questions than it answered. 

WHY does the City continue in a long time pattern of long delays and high cost estimates to fulfill lawful GRAMA Requests made by Cedar Hills Citizens for Responsible Government to access public records in behalf of ALL residents — especially prior to elections?  It seems that city officials can do what they set their mind to do.   

Does Cedar Hills have "open, honest and transparent" government?  Why is it that all too often,  they seemingly have to be dragged kicking and screaming every step of the way before city officials finally fulfill their legal responsibilities — finally implement common sense thinking — in providing the PUBLIC's records to the public?    

CHCRG offered the following letter to the City Manager thanking him for his efforts, but also asking questions about the pattern that appears hide, withhold, delay providing public records, rather than transparency, openness, and responsiveness.  CH Chandler Goodwin City Manager

CHCRG has often been maligned and ridiculed by elected officials and staff for simply gathering and sharing info it believes important for voters to have about their government.

Chandler Goodwin promised to reply to the follow-up questions in writing.  CHCRG looks forward to his response. Thanks!





I received the following 2nd email / GRAMA response from Colleen at her end of day yesterday — 5 p.m.  Will you confirm if you believe her email is a COMPLETELY open, honest and transparent GRAMA response please?  (files attached below)

First, thank you for whatever influence you exerted to provide this October 9th GRAMA response.  We appreciate that very much!    [emphasis added] 

Apparently, you accepted Rob & my suggestion to simply ask the FORE UP software providers how to access their software's data — and that it provided the almost instantaneous information requested — all in under the $50 — hence Free?   We are so glad not to unnecessarily pay $2,400 or $2,800 for the records.  Thank you!  But, may we please point out that Staff should’ve done this as their FIRST STEP, not randomly determine "80 hours” ($2,800), oh and "good luck getting the info to CH Voters before most of the mail in ballots come in!”  If stalling was their plan, — they succeeded — again!  But, that doesn’t make them “open, honest and transparent” in their serving CH taxpayers.

It took your staff 3 weeks (not 10 days) and could’ve been fulfilled by Oct. 10 within about one hour — if your team so desired.  It appears there wasn't anyone on your staff that “so desired".

To the records provided — again, the quick, cursory review of the City’s GRAMA response actually generates MORE questions than the response helps to answer.  Please help me understand the following:


1. Why are only first names listed throughout most of the record — except for a few scattered last names listed?

2.  Is it policy not to list last names? Why? Couldn’t “Gary” be an alias to get free golf?  How  can you as the City Manager — tasked with protecting our multi-million dollar asset — if the golf reservation records don’t document and tell you who is golfing for FREE on the backs of Cedar Hills taxpayers?

3.  I assume you know what the codes of “- c”, and “- c – c – c”, and "Merrill – gary – gary", and "POS", etc, all mean please?

4.  Is this GRAMA response a COMPLETE record of ALL FREE GOLF played in Cedar Hills?  

5.   Is there ANY Free golf that was NOT recorded? 

For example, as you know former Mayor Brad Sears and his friends, may have been golfing under Lone Peak Links passes or certificates for many years — possibly since the opening of the golf course, right?  But, no where is there a record listing "Brad Sears" or "Lone Peak Links”, or variations, etc., included that I can see.  Why is it not included?


Chandler, AGAIN, can you see why this can seem more like a cover-up than a fulfillment of a GRAMA request?  Not blaming you, but the question has to be asked, “Who is minding the store?”  In other words, who is watching out for Cedar Hills residents and taxpayers as their #1 priority within Staff & Council?  

We at Cedar Hills Citizens for Responsible Government want to build trust and cooperation with the City leadership — hopefully through you — and your good will.  Can you help with above please?


Ken Cromar signature blue 3 lg


Ken Cromar – researcher for 

Cedar Hills Citizens for Responsible Government

former elected Cedar Hills Councilman – 1994 to 2000


Please consider the following GRAMA "response" file …  Tee Time Details Report – October 01, 2014 to October 26, 2017 (GRAMA Request)




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